Text Dialogue: Was Jesus Crucified?

M. The Holy Qur’an states in Surah 4:157 chat Jesus was not crucified: “And their [Jews'] boasting: “We killed Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the Apostle of Allah,’ but they [Jews] killed him not, nor crucified him…” Do you still believe that he died on the cross?

C. Yes, he died and was then resurrected.

M. We all agree that nobody saw the moment he was resurrected. They found the sepulchre where Jesus was laid down, empty and made the conclusion that he was resurrected because the disciples and other witnesses saw him alive after the alleged crucifixion. Could it not be possible, as the Qur’an claims, that he didn’t die on the cross?

C. Where is the proof then?

M. Let us see passages in the Bible supporting this evidence. Do you give more weight to what Jesus said or to hearsay of the disciples, apostles and other witnesses?

C. Of course more to Jesus himself.

M. That is in accordance with what Jesus said (Matthew 10:24): “The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.”

C. Bur Jesus himself said that he will rise from the dead (Luke 24:46): “And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day.”

M. Suffering is often exaggerated in the Bible and termed “dead” as Paul said (I Corinthians 15:31): “I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ, I die daily” (i.e. I sufier daily). Here are some of the proofs:
1. On the cross he beseeched God for help (Matthew 27:46): “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”And in Luke 22:42: “Saying, Father if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done” (This cup is the cup of death.)
2. Jesus’ prayer not to die on the cross was accepted by God, according to Luke, Hebrews and James Then how could he still die on the cross? (Luke 22:43): “And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.” It means that an angel assured him that God would not leave him helpless. (Hebrews 5:7): “Who in the days of his flesh, when he [Jesus] had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in thai he feared.”
Jesus’ prayers were here heard, which means answered in a positive way by God (James 5:16): “…The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” Jesus himself said (Matthew 7:7-10): “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unco you; For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth, and to him who knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish,’will he give him a serpent?” If all Jesus’ prayers were accepted by God, including not to die on the cross, how could he still die on the cross then?
3. His legs were not broken by the Roman soldiers (John 19:32-33): “Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs.” Can you rely on these soldiers for pronouncing the death, or did they want to save Jesus as they found him innocent?
4. If Jesus died on the cross, his blood would clot and no blood would gush out of his body when his side was pierced. But the Gospel states that blood and water came out; (John 19:34): “But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.”
5. When the Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign of his true mission he answered (Matthew 12:40): “For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” Disregard now the time factor, which was also not three days and three nights but one day (Saturday, daytime only) and two nights (Friday night and Saturday night). Was Jonas alive in the belly of the whale?

C. Yes.

M. Was Jonas still alive when he was vomited out of the belly of the whale?

C. Yes

M. Then Jesus was still alive as he prophesied.

6. Jesus himself stated that he didn’t die on the cross. Early Sunday morning Mary Magdalene went to the sepulchre, which was empty. She saw somebody standing who looked like a gardener. She recognized him after conversation to be Jesus and wanted to touch him. Jesus said (John 20:17): “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father…” “Touch me not,” perhaps because the fresh wound would hurt him. “I am not yet ascended to my Father,” means that he was still alive, not dead yet, because if somebody dies, then he goes bark to the Creator. This was the strongest proof admitted by Jesus himself.
7. After the alleged crucifixion the disciples thought that he was not the same Jesus in body but spiritualized, because resurrected bodies are spiritualized.

C. Interruption How could you be sure that resurrected bodies are spiritualized?

M. That is what Jesus himself said in the Bible: that they are equal to angels.

C. Where in the Bible?

M. In Luke 20:34-36: “And answering said unto them, The children of the world marry, and are given in marriage. But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and then resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”
Then Jesus convinced them by letting them touch his hands and feet, that he was the same person. As they could not believe him yet, he asked for meat to show them that he still ate like any living individual. Read Luke 24:56-41: “And as they [the disciples] thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them. Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them. Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.”

8. If you still believe that he died on the cross, then he was a false Prophet and accursed of God according to these passages: (Deuteronomy 13:5): “And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death…”; (Deuteronomy 21:22-23): “And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”
To believe in his death on the cross is to discredit his prophethood. The Jews maintained to have killed Jesus on the cross and consequently portrayed him to be false in his claim to prophethood. Christians believe in the crucifixion necessary for their redemption of sin and consequently have to accept the accursedness of Jesus, too. This Christian belief opposes the Bible’s teaching in Hosea 6:6: “For I desired mercy and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt-offerings.” It also opposes Jesus’ own teaching (Matthew 9:13): “But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice…” Again Jesus said (Matthew 12:7): “But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.”

C. Why do people believe in the resurrection then?

M. It was Paul who taught the resurrection (Acts 17:18): “…And some [Jews] said, What will this babbler say? other some, He [Paul] seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.” Paul, who never saw Jesus, also admitted that the resurrection was his gospel (II Timothy 2:8): “Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel.” He was also the first who declared Jesus as Son of God (Acts 9:20): “And straight-way he [Paul] preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.” So Christianity is not a teaching of Jesus but of Paul.

C. But Mark (16:19) mentioned that Jesus was raised up to heaven and sat on the right hand of God: “So then after (he Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”

M. As I told you under the discussion of the Holy Bible that Mark 16, verses 9-20, were expunged in certain Bibles. See remark in the Revised Standard Version, the New American Standard Bible and the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures of the Jehovah’s Witnesses Church. If you still believe thatJesus is divine because he was raised up to heaven, why don’t you accept other Prophets as divine who were also raised up to heaven?

C. Who were they?

M. Elijah (II Kings 2:1 1-12): “…and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Elisha saw it, and he cried… And he saw him no more…” Also Enoch was taken by God to heaven (Genesis 5:24). “And Enoch walked with God; and he was not; for God took him,” This was also repeated in Hebrews 11:5: “By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God translated him; for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”

Dialogue: The Doctrine of the Trinity

Here is a Dialogue between a Muslim and a Christian about the doctrine of the Trinity.

M= Muslim     C= Christian

M. Is Jesus God?

C. Yes. In the Gospel according to John (1:1): “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

M. We have agreed that a Holy Scripture should not contain contradictions. If there are two conflicting verses, then only one can be true, both can never be true or both are wrong.
Jesus is then God according to John 1:1. Then how many Gods are there? Two at least. This then is in contradiction with many passages in the Bible: (Deuteronomy 4:39): “…that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else”; (Deuteronomy 6:4): “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord”; (Isaiah 43:19-11): “…that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour”; (Isaiah 44:6): “Thus saith the Lord … I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God”; (Isaiah 45:18): “For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to-be inhabited: I am the Lord, and there is none else.”
From Isaiah 45:18 alone we can conclude that God alone was the Creator and no one else, not even Jesus, participated in the creation.
See further: Deuteronomy 4:35; Exodus 8:10; II Samuel 7:22; I Kings 8:23:1 Chronicles 17:20; Psalms 86:8, 89:6 and 113:5; Hosea 13:4; Zechariah 14:9.

C. But these are all in the Old Testament Do you find it in the New Testament?

M. Sure. Read in Mark 12:29 what Jesus himself said: “And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, 0 Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.”
(I Corinthians 8:4): “…we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.” (I Timothy 2:5): “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Look to the expression “the man Christ Jesus.” Now you can either say that John 1:1 is right and all these other verses are wrong, or the reverse.

C. Difficult to judge!

M. Let us see it from the Qur’anic point of view, and this corresponds with what Jesus himself said in the Bible. Jesus is mentioned several times in the Qur’an as 2 Word from Allah. In Surah 3:39: “Then the angels called to him [Zechariah] while he was standing in prayer in the chamber (saying): Allah gives you glad tidings of John [i.e. the Baptist] believing in a Word from Allah [i.e. Jesus, son of Mary], noble, keeping away from sexual relations with women, a prophet, and one of the righteous.”
In the same Surah 3, again mentioned in verse 45: “[Remember] when the angels said: “O Mary! Verily Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word from Him, his name will be Messiah Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter, and of those who are near to Allah.” In both verses of the Holy Qur’an Jesus is also called a Word from Allah, i.e. a Word coming from Allah or belonging to Allah, in correspondence with I Corinthians 5:23: “And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.” John 1:1 should also have been written: “…and the Word was God’s.” The mistake could have been in the translation from Aramaic to Greek, deliberately or not. In the Greek language Theos is God, but Theou means God’s (see Greek dictionary, Greek Bible, or Muhammad in the Bible by Prof. Abdu L-Ahad Dawud, former Bishop of Uramiah, page 16). A difference of only one letter but big consequences.

C. Why is Jesus called the Word of God in both Scriptures?

M. The creation of Jesus in the womb of Mary was without the agency of a sperm, just only with the decree of Allah: “Be,” as mentioned in the same Surah 3:47: “She [Mary] said; ‘O, my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me,’ He said: ‘So [it will be], for Allah creates what He will. When He has decreed something. He says to it only “Be” and it is.’”

C. Jesus is God because he is filled with the Holy Spirit.

M. Why don’t you consider other people divine who are also rilled with the Holy Ghost? (Acts 11:24): “For he [Barnabas] was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith; and much people was added unto the Lord.” (Acts 5:32): “And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.”
See further Acts 6:5; II Peter 1:21; II Timothy 1:14; I Corinthians 2:16; Luke 1:41.

C. But Jesus was filled with the Holy Ghost while he was still in his mother’s womb.

M. The same was true with John the Baptist (Luke 1:13, 15): “But the angel said unto him. Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elizabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. For he shall be great in the sight of the lord, and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.

C. But Jesus could do miracles He fed five thousand people with only five loaves and two fishes.

M. The same was done by Elisha and Elijah. Elisha fed a hundred people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn (II Kings 4:44): “So he set it before them, and they did eat, and left thereof, according to the word of the Lord.” Elisha secured the increase of a widow’s oil and he said to her (II Kings 4:7): “Go, sell the oil, and pay thy debt, and live thou and thy children of the rest.” See also 1 Kings 17:16: “And the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the Lord, which he spake by Elijah.” Also 1 Kings 17:6: “And the ravens brought him [Elijah] bread and flesh in the morning, bread and flesh in the evening: and he drank of the brook.”

C. But Jesus could heal leprosy.

M. Also Elisha told Naaman who was a leper to wash in the Jordan river (II Kings 5:l4): “Then went he [Naaman) down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God [Elisha]: and his flesh came again like unto a flesh of a little child, and he was clean.”

C. But Jesus could cause a blind man to see again

M. Also Elisha did (II Kings 6:17): “And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man: and he saw…” (II Kings 6:20): “And it came to pass, when they were come into Samaria, that Elisha said. Lord open the eyes of these men, that they may see. And the Lord opened their eyes, and they saw; and behold, they were in the midst of Samaria.”
Elisha was also told to cause blindness (II Kings 6:18): “And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the Lord, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.”

C. Jesus, could raise the dead.

M. Compare with Elijah (I Kings 17:22): “And the Lord heard the voice of Elijah: and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.” Compare also with Elisha (II Kings 4:34): “And he [Elisha] went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands; and he stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm.”
Even the dead bones of Elisha could restore a dead body to life by touching only (II Kings 13:21): “And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.”

C. But Jesus walked upon the water.

M. Moses stretched out his arms over the sea (Exodus 14:22): “And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground; and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.”

C. But Jesus could cast out devils.

M. Jesus himself admitted that other people could do it (Matthew 12:27 and Luke 11:19): “And if 1 by Beelzebub case out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.”
Also the disciples could cast out devils as Jesus said (Matthew 7:22): “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name: and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?”
Even false prophets would do wonders, as prophesied by Jesus himself (Matthew 24:24): “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, (hey shall deceive the very elect.”

C. But Elijah and Elisha did wonders through praying to the Lord.

M. Jesus also did the miracles with the grace of God, as he himself said (John 5:30): “I can of mine own self do nothing…” and (Luke 11:20): “But if I with the finger of God cast out devils’, no doubt the Kingdom of God is come upon you.”
All miracles performed by Jesus had been done by previous prophets, disciples, and even unbelievers. On the other hand, Jesus could do no mighty work where there was unbelief (Mark 6:5,6): “And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went around about the villages, teaching.”

C. But Jesus was resurrected three days after he died.

M. We will talk later about his crucifixion because there are so many controversies about it. I 11 only say now briefly that it was a gospel of Paul, who never saw Jesus alive (II Timothy 2:8): “Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel.”
The gospel of resurrection in Mark 16:9-20 has also been removed in many Bibles. If not removed it is printed in small print or between two brackets and with commentary. See Revised Standard Version, New American Standard Bible and New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Let me ask you one thing: did Jesus ever claim to be God or to say, “Here am I, your God, and worship me”?

C. No, but he is God and man.

M. But did he ever claim that?

C. No.

M. Indeed he had prophesied that people will worship him uselessly and will believe in doctrines not made by God but by men (Matthew 15:9): “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”

All doctrines of modern Christianity are made by men: the Trinity, Divine Sonship of Jesus, Divinity of Jesus Christ, Original Sin and Atonement. From Jesus own sayings, recorded in the New Testament, it is clear that he never claimed divinity or identity to God: “I do nothing of myself” (John 8:28), “My Father is greater than I” (John 14:28): “The Lord our God is one Lord” (Mark 1 2:29); “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34); “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit” (Luke 23:46).
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father” (Mark 13:32). Jesus was called prophet, teacher from God, His servant, Messiah, and later was escalated to Son of God, and then God Himself.
Let us now use our reason: how can God be born by a mortal one as any other mortal?
Jesus slept while God never sleeps (Psalm 121:4): “Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.” God should be powerful but how could people spit on him, crucify him as alleged. How could Jesus be God if he worshiped God as any other mortal (Luke 5:16); “And he withdrew himself into the wilderness, and prayed.”
Jesus was tempted by Satan for forty days (Luke 4:1-13) but in James 1:13 is said: “…for God cannot be tempted with evil…” How can Jesus be God, then? We can rationalize further and further.